Doctor Who discussion (spoilers)

[Chancellor Valium]

Well, it's a legit Beeb website, so I'd assume it is...It also fits in with RNT's usual idea of how to end a season...

Hmm.

Mixed bag, this one.

Captain Jack, but Professor Yana. John Simm but Derek Jacobi. Murray Gold, but err... actually, there's nothing that could counterpoint the awfulness (and inappropriateness!) of Gold's muzakal choons.

John Simm as the Master...Urk. What a horrendous performance. It's gurning-chips-and-joompahs all over again.

2/10. Would be a five or maybe a six, but John Simm's performance (and, to be fair, Jacobi's "I am the Master!") pushed it down.

Oh, and what a fantastically, stupendously idiotic plot.

[Burt]

Ok, I'm going to be very angry if I don't get the answers to some questions.
-Why did the Doctor leave Jack back on the station? (and none of that 'You're All Wrong' crap.)
-Why would the 'TARDIS' think he's wrong too? It more or less helped create him!
-Un-killable or not....clinging to the outside of the TARDIS? IT DOES NOT FLY LIKE THAT! IT Dematerializes!!.
-What and Where were Utopia? Will we ever find out?
-Right. The Master became human? When? 50 years ago? 100? What about the other 50 [trillion] years in the middle? Are you telling me he made it to the end of time? Then became human?
-OK. The Master. Last seen, the Doctor Who Movie. Had zero regenerations left. And then fell into the Eye of Harmony. How did he get out of that one? Where did he get more regenerations from?
-Who were the 'future people'? Were they really .... future people?

I'm feeling anger.

[Nate the Great]

Just don't Hulk out on us, okay?

[Burt]

Oh and...

Originally Posted by Chancellor Valium

Oh, and what a fantastically, stupendously idiotic plot.

Chancellor, Doctor Who.
Doctor Who, Chancellor Valium.

Have you two met?

[Chancellor Valium]

Originally Posted by Burt

Oh and...



Chancellor, Doctor Who.
Doctor Who, Chancellor Valium.

Have you two met?

Suspension of disbelief? OK, yeah, got it.

But that was just...Goonish.

[catalina_marina]

Well I haven't seen the original doctor who seasons of course... But I was really hoping the other timelord was someone we already knew. From the new series that is.

[Burt]

What is that noise? Where's it coming from?

It's like.... the sound of drums.....?

[Chancellor Valium]

Sounds like what you need...is a Doctor

SPOILERS!





[spoiler]And if the rumour about Jack being the Doctor's son is true, there will be a copious quantity of blood dripping from RNT's office.[/spoiler]

Hmm. Another mixed bag. Simm is good as the Master, I'll grant. He's good as the Master in a 1972 serial. Then you could get away with hamminess, which now is just out of place. At times, the over-acting spilled over a bit too far, too (such as meeting the Jones' at the airport), such that it made Ainley and Roberts look restrained, but...eh.

Although again with the childish humour, and the cross-species love, which seems even more unlikely given the Master's arrogance - and his comment in "Utopia" about being killed by a female...a Time Lord falling in love with a human is rather like a human falling in love with a butterfly - it may be pretty, but it's thoroughly stupid, and dead in no time. You couldn't even use it for casual sex [something I neither condone nor approve of] - as a relationship, it's pointless.

I did like the shots of Gallifrey - very well done there, although the whole idea of Time Lords procreating is bizarre, IMO - I can't even get my head around the concept of...well, put it this way. Borusa or Flavia in bed, even with another Gallifreyan. Exactly.

Although, come to think of it, it didn't exactly look old. Which given that it had been built ten-million years previously...

Besides, Rassilon is modelled on Divi Augustus, who was very much a prude, and wouldn't have thought that sort of thing ought to go on (though wouldn't have let that stop him getting it on with whoever he fancied), and there's the whole question of the Looms, the Great Houses, the Pythia, etc.

That's rather nitpicky, though.

Also, the Time Lords resurrecting him? Hmmm. A little too convenient, IMO. As usual, an explanation that doesn't actually explain.

the Toclafane remind me of the Spheroids (?) of Spheron I in Futurama ("we demand bouncing!" "And rolling!" &c.), but otherwise are OK, although their voices are a little annoying, and about as scary as a pink, fluffy Slitheen.

Erm. Anyone else spot the Time Lord sign on the Valiant?

I did like the 'paradox machine', but there's been no explanation of why the Toclafane are a paradox. Also, if the Master has heard the sound of drums all his life, why are we only hearing about it now?

Direction was bland and the music steadily got worse. The Master, too, now is a naff twat from down the pub, but I was expecting that.

Pace was good, the story arc worked, even if we did find out what was going to happen rather too early. Curious to see how the Time Lords fit into this.

Like so many RTD stories (yes, he's earned his actual name back...), flawed, but a great basic idea.

Oh, and what the hell was that about choosing their names? We're not meant to know why the Doctor is the Doctor, or how, or anything else. He just is. Like time itself.

Would be 6/10, but it gains a point for the use of actual Time Lord dress (although the idea of a Time Lord outside the Citadel except for a ceremonial purpose and the naming of a continent "Wild Endeavours" knocks it down half a point).

The final CV rating therefore is 6.5/10

[Edit: What a long review!]

[Burt]

Originally Posted by Chancellor Valium

Sounds like what you need...is a Doctor

SPOILERS!





[spoiler]And if the rumour about Jack being the Doctor's son is true, there will be a copious quantity of blood dripping from RNT's office.[/spoiler]

Yikes.... His son? Oh...not good.

Hmm. Another mixed bag. Simm is good as the Master, I'll grant. He's good as the Master in a 1972 serial. Then you could get away with hamminess, which now is just out of place. At times, the over-acting spilled over a bit too far, too (such as meeting the Jones' at the airport), such that it made Ainley and Roberts look restrained, but...eh.

Although again with the childish humour, and the cross-species love, which seems even more unlikely given the Master's arrogance - and his comment in "Utopia" about being killed by a female...a Time Lord falling in love with a human is rather like a human falling in love with a butterfly - it may be pretty, but it's thoroughly stupid, and dead in no time. You couldn't even use it for casual sex [something I neither condone nor approve of] - as a relationship, it's pointless.

Hhhhmmmmm...maybe he's just different now.. The Doctor changes... I mean yeah, he's basicly the same. But different from one regeneration to another.... also...maybe he's using her too..

I did like the shots of Gallifrey - very well done there, although the whole idea of Time Lords procreating is bizarre, IMO - I can't even get my head around the concept of...well, put it this way. Borusa or Flavia in bed, even with another Gallifreyan. Exactly.

Huge amount of backstory in this episode. It was like.... WHOA!

Although, come to think of it, it didn't exactly look old. Which given that it had been built ten-million years previously...

Besides, Rassilon is modelled on Divi Augustus, who was very much a prude, and wouldn't have thought that sort of thing ought to go on (though wouldn't have let that stop him getting it on with whoever he fancied), and there's the whole question of the Looms, the Great Houses, the Pythia, etc.

That's rather nitpicky, though.

Also, the Time Lords resurrecting him? Hmmm. A little too convenient, IMO. As usual, an explanation that doesn't actually explain.

Might happen. They used him in the Five Doctors when they needed him! But I'm just happy they even gave an explanation at all. I was worried they wouldn't bother!

the Toclafane remind me of the Spheroids (?) of Spheron I in Futurama ("we demand bouncing!" "And rolling!" &c.), but otherwise are OK, although their voices are a little annoying, and about as scary as a pink, fluffy Slitheen.
I do hope they get explained. How do they fit in? where they from?

Erm. Anyone else spot the Time Lord sign on the Valiant?

Valiant... very captain scarlett!

I did like the 'paradox machine', but there's been no explanation of why the Toclafane are a paradox. Also, if the Master has heard the sound of drums all his life, why are we only hearing about it now?

Another one... what was the 'darkness' that the Toclafane spoke of?

Direction was bland and the music steadily got worse. The Master, too, now is a naff twat from down the pub, but I was expecting that.

Pace was good, the story arc worked, even if we did find out what was going to happen rather too early. Curious to see how the Time Lords fit into this.

Like so many RTD stories (yes, he's earned his actual name back...), flawed, but a great basic idea.

Oh, and what the hell was that about choosing their names? We're not meant to know why the Doctor is the Doctor, or how, or anything else. He just is. Like time itself.

hhmmmm...I always guessed it was a cover.... for another name. It's always be hinted thoughout the whole of doctor who...

Would be 6/10, but it gains a point for the use of actual Time Lord dress (although the idea of a Time Lord outside the Citadel except for a ceremonial purpose and the naming of a continent "Wild Endeavours" knocks it down half a point).

The final CV rating therefore is 6.5/10

[Edit: What a long review!]

[/QUOTE]

Liked the bit's about Torchwood though! How they were sent off and that.

Can't wait till then next episode. Looking forward to the big finish!

[Chancellor Valium]

I'd agree that the Master is probably using Mrs. Saxon, but what for, now that he's effectively got what he wants? The Master (stereo)typically would've killed her by now...Quite (melo)dramatically. With muchos insane laughing.

[PointyHairedJedi]

That episode made me want to cry, and not in a good way. I rather suspect that I'm just not going to want to think about the finale after it actually happens - until then I'm in a state of dreadful anticipation.

[Chancellor Valium]

At last, you have awakened!

[/Kreia]

[Burt]

What?!
I watched it a second time, and to be honest, I'm really liking it. I thought the stuff about the Timelords and their city was lovely! Wonderful visuals.. and haunting music. Made them seem almost... god-like and nice. Too bad we know that they're usually idiots. I'm still not sure about the Valient though. Even with the Masters help building it... too much I think. Why not just give 21st century Earth a Death Star too?
But I thought it was kinda cool!
Oh! I did like how the music changed into Torchwood music when Jack was speaking... Neat.

[Chancellor Valium]

I was more concrned that it looked like Cloudbase from Captain Scarlet.

As for the Citadel...ehh. It looks like a collection of executive desk toys combined with a snow-globe. And besides, the city is meant to be ten-million years old. Doesn't look it, I must say. Also, the Time Lords were never nice. Manipulative, perhaps. Overall, good, perhaps. But nice? Hmph.

And the Master was waaaaaay too panto.

[Burt]

lol. That suggests that the Master was ever anything else other than panto. Come on. Cape.... crazy laugh... all he needed was a top hat to finish the look.
On the idea of the city.... if they could make a city that could last that long , I'm sure the Timelords could find a way to make it stay new and pretty. i.e the city of the Exxilons (Death to the Daleks).
It's the hallmark of a advanced race, don't you know?

[PointyHairedJedi]

I figured out what it was that I liked the least - John Simm just isn't the Master. Mostly that is down to RTD's writing and direction for the part; what we should have seen is a character who was far more subtle in his madness and not nearly so manic, because that's who the Master is. In his defence I will say that I think that this is the first really major misstep Davies has taken, but even so it's a whopper.

[Chancellor Valium]

Originally Posted by Burt

It's the hallmark of a advanced race, don't you know?

But the Time Lords like ancient and crumbling!

@Pointy: Nope. His decisions on the Doctor are pretty off, too. Everything he's done so far has led up to the Master's "OK, duckies, it's ME-ee! Ooooooooooh, suit you, sir!" ridiculousness.

And on to the subject of the Master. He's more over-the-top than the excesses of Ainley. And Ainley was ridiculous. He's worse than Eric Roberts' "I alwayz drezz for the occasion" campness. He is...urk. There are no words to describe the silliness, the ridiculous cabinet scene...Ugh.

On to "The Last of the Ham Lords". Right now, I am very, very angry, in the heads-rolling-on-the-floor way, for only mildly-related reasons. As for the episode itself, I think it can be summed up in one word: "insulting".

[Burt]

I see your Insulted... and raise you Nausea.
I can not believe... anything anymore. I feel like my grip on reality (A lose one at best) has been broken. What in the HELL was that!?
Oh yeah. BTW
Spoilers
To be honest, I think it's more a duty to mankind to forewarn people.
Why?
Thats what people usually ask, after a tragedy. Why did this happen to me?
I've led a good life. I give to charity. I help old people across the road (Whether they want to or not.) The other day I saved a cute little Hedgehog from certain doom.
Yet... I'm rewarded... with this pile of crap.
The brief cliff battle, was more the kind of thing I was hoping for. And the bit about....the face of Boe. Bit clever. The rest?
I need to lay down. For about a year.

[Grayvorn]

Last of the Time Lords was a cracking end to what for me, has been perhaps the best season of Doctor Who ever!!!!

[PointyHairedJedi]

I have a feeling you'll be in a distinct minority with that view.

Thinking about it, what's all the more disappointing for me is that, aside from those last three episodes, season 3 was an all round improvement on season 2. I was actually starting to think that perhaps RTD had... matured a bit, but I guess I couldn't have been more wrong. The fact that we had yet another deus ex machina ending (three in a row now), and even a disturbingly similar lead-in to the Christmas special as last year ("What? What?!"), all leads me to conclude that whatever originality Mr. Davies came to the series with is now totally spent.